The NDE (near-death experience) Paradigm Project: Living in Alignment with Cosmic Consciousness

Religion and the NDE Paradigm

THE NDE PARADIGM
Table of Contents: NDE Paradigm Commentary
The Spirtual Falseness of "The Secret"
Tsunami: why bad things happen to good people; the NDE Paradigm Perspective
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Religion and the NDE Paradigm
What the (bleep) Do We Know, indeed!
How the NDE Paradigm Challenges Western Assumptions . . .
Toward a New Paradigm . . .
1- Understandings
2 - Understandings
3 - Understandings
4 -Understandings
5 - Understandings
6 - Understandings
7 - Understandings
8 - Understandings
9 - Understandings
10 - Understandings
11 - Required Actions
12 - Required Actions
13 - Required Actions
14 - Required Actions
15 - Required Actions
16 - Required Actions
17 - Required Actions
18 - Results
19 - Results
20 - Results
21 - Results
22 - Results
23 - Results
24 - Results
25 - Results
26 - Results

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book review: "My Descent into Death"   Howard Storm's Christian NDE .... by JD Bourdon

     For years, for centuries, the concept of the unconditionally loving, non-judgmental god revealed to those who reach the light in NDE’s has been steadfastly opposed not only by atheists but even more so by - of all things – organized religion.  Indeed, NDErs themselves would probably be divided about who  disbelieves their experience more: the medical doctors who can’t escape material concepts or the religionists who can’t escape dogma.

     That’s one of the reason Howard Storm’s book, "My Decent into Death" (Doubleday, http://www.randomhouse.com/doubleday/catalog/display.pperl?0385513763) is such a unique NDE account.  Now a minister, Storm is both a NDEr and a devout Christian.  Descent also has the eye-catching support (and forward by) Anne Rice, esteemed author of "Interview with the Vampire" - indeed, Storm says without her support his story would not be published.

     There’s another way in which Descent sets itself apart from other NDE books – Storm’s experience was negative, as negative as his life.  In his pre-NDE life, Storm says, "I believed that if you were born into this dog-eat-dog kind of world, you might as well be a winner instead of a loser.  All the people I knew were out for themselves…. Anyone who wasn’t pragmatic and realistic about life (like me) was a loser… The one who dies with the most toys wins.  Compassion is for the weak."

     I know a lot of people that have adopted that attitude at one time in their life, myself among them.  That in itself makes Descent a great cautionary tale.  He is a Christian Marley for all the Scrooges of the world, wailing at the chains he forged in life.

     After an emergency operation in Paris in 1985, Storm found himself outside his body, and heard voices summoning him into a mist of sorts, following other beings.  That’s reminiscent of the many NDErs who say that after death they entered some type of "void"… a kind of waiting station before one is greeted by others or summoned by The Light.  Most people find the void comfortable. 

     But at this point some NDErs find themselves in the company of spirits like themselves – and that was Storm’s misfortune.  Summoned by them, he followed these beings into what became total darkness.  The beings he followed - "think of the worst imaginable person stripped of every impulse of compassion" - taunted, then attacked him, and he futilely fought back.

     For those who subscribe to the "survival of the fittest" philosophy of life, Storm’s no-pain-barred account of chickens coming home to roost in the afterlife will be genuinely disturbing.

     "My attempts to fight back only provoked greater merriment…. They were playing with me just as a cat plays with a mouse.  Every new assault brought howls of cacophonous laughter…. My torment was their excitement… Eventually I became too badly torn up and too broken to resist.  Most of them gave up tormenting me because I was no longer amusing, but a few still picked and gnawed at me and ridiculed me for no longer being amusing.  I had been torn apart.  In that wretched state I lay there in the darkness."

     Storm’s salvation – and this is true of other negative NDEs – was a call for love, in the form of the greatest Hail Mary prayer I’ve ever heard:

     "Yea, though I walk in the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil, for thou art with me.  For purple mountain majesty, mine eyes have seen the glory of the coming of the Lord.  Deliver us from evil.  One nation under God.  God bless America."

     Anyone who forges the 23rd Psalm, "America the Beautiful" and "Battle Hymn of the Republic" lyrics, and the American Pledge of Allegiance into a soul-saving prayer probably deserves (or needs) salvation… and indeed, Storm says he was rescued by Jesus, "more loving than anyone can begin to imagine or describe."

     Upon recovery, Storm immediately took a different road.  He went to a church for the first time in decades, where he disturbed others by throwing himself on the floor and praising God.  Today, he is pastor of Zion United Church in Cincinnati.

     Storm’s account should, by some standards, make him a NDE Poster Boy: atheist turned minister.  He could become one – but I hope not.

     The problem is that while NDE’s provide knowledge, they don’t provide wisdom.  In Descent, Storm tries to dress the god revealed by NDEs into Christian clothing, and it just doesn’t fit.  Most NDErs will be astonished at Storm’s claim that "contemporary Christian theology" comfortably fits with the god experienced in the NDE.

     As one NDEr, an atheist like Storm, says, "I saw nothing at all consistent with Christian theology.  I have seen many be able to associate with the concept of a man completing himself with the sacred nature of the creator- but I have read little about people coming back with a Christian theme born into their being."

     Says another NDEr, who encountered a Being of Light, "My only "religion" now, is my relationship with that Being/Father/Creator/Saviour - the term doesn't matter.  I was raised a Christian, so I had an image in my mind of the biblical Jesus.  The Being in my NDE seemed so much more to me.  My human mind had its' stubborn image, put together from the words of other men, and my soul had the true image.  It seems the answer was to subdue the mind(ego), and listen to my soul.  And that took years for me - sometimes religion has a lot to answer for."

     Only Storm can explain why he reached a different conclusion.  Or reconcile the following:

  • Storm says this earthly life is an "opportunity to prepare ourselves for heaven is given only once."  Yet countless NDErs have spoken of being aware of past lives and future lives.  This thinking actually makes the earthly existence more important than the eternal, spiritual one.
  • "No one ever born was good enough to go to heaven."  Oh, Howard!  We came from heaven; we are the stuff of heaven.  We’re ALL good enough – you, and people far worse than you, have had NDEs in which unconditional love is expressed.  How awful, how terrible, that modern Christian theology should throw such false and fearsome doubt and pain on us – the children of god.  Damned and sinful from the start?  What type of god is that?
  • Storm says God has emotions, suffers, is disappointed in us at times, and feels "misery" when rejected.  But Howard, God is not mentally unstable.  God is unconditional love, perfect.  And if we are here to learn from mistakes, as virtually every NDEr reports, then aren’t mistakes, even horrible ones, fundamentally necessary?
  • Storm says God was "very unhappy with the course of human history."  Indeed, "We are supposed to learn that war is unacceptable and prevent wars from happening." Well, Howard, not to embrace war, but just how are "we" supposed to do this? Among the worst beliefs that religions foster is the idea of collective responsibility for the perfection of the Earth, because it god-sanctions everything from the middle age Crusades to modern day terrorists.  If God's goal is a perfect world, then we have to change others - but in NDE life reviews (and Storm had one), no such "collective responsibility" is seen.  It is the individual’s life that is reviewed – you are here to improve yourself, and from that comes a better world.  You have that incredible opportunity every day, and you have it in part because of the wars, greed, unfairness and tragedy around you.  The world is fine.  Win the war within you – that’s your responsibility.
  • God, it seems, is also unhappy with the USA, and "sees the people of the United States become increasingly greedy, self-centered and uncaring."  Yet every NDEr, Storm included, encounters a dimension where there is no such thing as time – in other words, at this instant, the happenings in a Brazilian village in 1650 are taking place.  Given that, why is 2005 in America any more important than Brazil in 1650?  You’d think god was sitting by, hoping and fretting that we will do better "tomorrow." There is only "now."
  • Jesus is the only way.  Asking which religion is the best, Storm is told "the one that brings you closest to God."  Sounds good, but then Storm reveals the fine print: that road must lead through Jesus.  Needless to say, the countless number of NDErs who are Muslims, Jews, atheists, agnostics and spiritualists do not receive any such admonition.  A better interpretation is that the road to god must come by way of the teachings of love taught by Jesus and many, many others.

     To be fair to Storm, he certainly got the message of love from his NDE.  He isn’t a fundamentalist preaching fire-and brimstone.  Try as he might, though, Storm can’t get away from the religious paradigm of a very, very man-like god.  As Mark Twain famously observed, "God created man in his own image, and man returned the favor."

     Storm’s god is an entity apart from us.  He says that "Hell is separation from God," and that’s true in part.  But a better conclusion would be, "Hell is separation from self."  Because we already are a part of god, nothing can change that.  It is the false perception that creates the illusion of separateness.

     And where, oh where Howard, is the idea of self-love in Descent?  And the knowledge that being loving and compassionate toward oneself is every bit as important as extending those qualities to others?  A NDEr I know – a woman who had several of them, in fact - recalls that in her major one, the message she received was "Don’t be so hard on yourself."  Another recalls being horrified at her life review and gently being told, "You’re only human." Now, that’s a loving god for you!

     What, then, could be worse: the rejection of NDE validity by organized religion, or its distortion and co-optation?  Storm’s book will certainly cause many Christians who read it to consider NDEs as legitimate – or at least, not a trick by Satan, as many have actually been told by the religious establishment.  That’s certainly good.  And Lord knows, it’s certainly about time.

     But the discrepancy between the religious paradigm and the NDE paradigm is cavernous, to say the least.  Storm barely mentions encounters with other NDErs in Descent, but he surely must know by now that few would reach his conclusions.

     What, then, is one to do with My Descent Into Death?  Keep the love, compassion, caring and the understanding that Storm embraces – and toss the fears, expectations, demands, condemnations that are the terribly false illusions of religion.

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Religion, Science and Spirituality... quotes from Albert Einstein, scientist, from http://www.simpletoremember.com/

     Science without religion is lame.  Religion without science is blind.

     My religion consists of a humble admiration of the illimitable superior spirit who reveals himself in the slight details we are able to perceive with our frail and feeble mind.   The further the spiritual evolution of mankind advances, the more certain it seems to me that the path to genuine religiosity does not lie through the fear of life, and the fear of death, and blind faith, but through striving after rational knowledge.

     Every one who is seriously involved in the pursuit of science becomes convinced that a spirit is manifest in the laws of the Universe-a spirit vastly superior to that of man, and one in the face of which we with our modest powers must feel humble.  The scientists' religious feeling takes the form of a rapturous amazement at the harmony of natural law, which reveals an intelligence of such superiority that, compared with it, all the systematic thinking and acting of human beings is an utterly insignificant reflection.

     There is no logical way to the discovery of elemental laws.  There is only the way of intuition, which is helped by a feeling for the order lying behind the appearance.  The intuitive mind is a sacred gift and the rational mind is a faithful servant.

     We have created a society that honors the servant and has forgotten the gift.  The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious; It is the source of all true art and science.  We should take care not to make the intellect our god; it has, of course, powerful muscles, but no personality.

     Whoever undertakes to set himself up as a judge of Truth and Knowledge is shipwrecked by the laughter of the Gods.

     When the solution is simple, God is answering.  God does not play dice with the universe.  God is subtle but he is not malicious.

     A human being is a part of the whole, called by us Universe, a part limited in time and space.  He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest-a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness.  This delusion is a kind of prison, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us.  Our task must be to free from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty.

     The man who regards his own life and that of his fellow creatures as meaningless is not merely unfortunate but almost disqualified for life.

     Peace cannot be kept by force. It can only be achieved by understanding.  Only a life lived for others is a life worth while.

     The human mind is not capable of grasping the Universe.  We are like a little child entering a huge library.  The walls are covered to the ceilings with books in many different tongues.  The child knows that someone must have written these books.  It does not know who or how. It does not understand the languages in which they are written.  But the child notes a definite plan in the arrangement of the books---a mysterious order which it does not comprehend, but only dimly suspects.

     The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing.

     One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality.  It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day.  Never lose a holy curiosity.

     What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly, and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility.  This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism.

     The finest emotion of which we are capable is the mystic emotion.  Herein lies the germ of all art and all true science.  Anyone to whom this feeling is alien, who is no longer capable of wonderment and lives in a state of fear is a dead man.

     To know that what is impenetrable for us really exists and manifests itself as the highest wisdom and the most radiant beauty, whose gross forms alone are intelligible to our poor faculties - this knowledge, this feeling ... that is the core of the true religious sentiment. In this sense, and in this sense alone, I rank myself among profoundly religious men.

     True religion is real living; living with all one's soul, with all one's goodness and righteousness. Intelligence makes clear to us the interrelationship of means and ends.  But mere thinking cannot give us a sense of the ultimate and fundamental ends.   To make clear these fundamental ends and valuations and to set them fast in the emotional life of the individual, seems to me precisely the most important function which religion has to form in the social life of man.

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why we need to go beyond religion ... by John Sloat, former Prysbeterian minister, from his website, www.beyondreligion.com

     1. Religion is limited by our human understanding.  Spiritual truth is as wide and broad as the mind of God.  No human attempt to comprehend the reality and plan of God could be complete and final.  There is always more to learn.

     2. Religion is the grammar school of spirituality, the place where we learn the basics about God.  But those lessons are couched in very elementary concepts.  In the same way that we are intended to move beyond grammar school into ever higher levels of learning, so we must be willing to move beyond childhood concepts and embrace the larger truths that God continually offers us.

     3. We are physical/spiritual beings.  We have a body which will eventually die, and a soul which will live forever because it is part of God.  As a result, we have two sets of senses, the five which connect us with the physical world and others that connect us with the spiritual world (intuition, dreams, visions, psychic abilities, etc.)  Religion is an expression of the physical side of our nature, while spirituality is connected to our divine nature.  Our goal as humans is to become more like God, to turn the world into the Kingdom of Heaven.  We can do this only as we turn away from human/intellectual images of God and seek a broader understanding of divine truth.

     4. Religion is an attempt to convert a vision of the invisible, eternal world into symbols and practices which we can understand.  But the problem is that we tend to invest those symbols and practices with divine authority and eventually worship the traditions we ourselves have created.  This is called idolatry.

     5. Religion is trapped in its own past.  Over the years it has developed a point of view about God which it considers complete and final.  As a result, it spends most of its time defending that vision and protecting itself against any new revelations which might upset its system of belief.  That means that even God is unable to get through to religious institutions with new insights into divine truth.  Thus, we have a choice between defending old human systems or being open to God's spirit which wants to communicate with us daily.

     6. Christianity is one of many efforts to understand and become one with God.  To think that it is the only true way to God, or that God loves only those within this particular belief system, is the worst kind of chauvinism.  It is helpful in this regard to think of Christianity as the Jesus cult.  There is nothing wrong with this cult except its claim that it alone holds the key to God's love.  Because of this claim, rather than embracing all others as equals in the sight of God, it looks down upon them as unbelievers who must be converted to think as Christians do.

     7. Jesus made the statement that he has much more to tell us (John 16:12).  But many who claim to be his followers are not interested in what he still has to say to us because they are afraid that any new idea will upset their neat little closed system.

     8. Religion is by definition an effort to understand and therefore to please God.  Religion began in primitive times with a recognition that the most important things in life are out of our control-life, death, weather, crops, health, the future, etc.  All these things seemed to be in the hands of a power much greater than we, and therefore it was important to stay on good terms with this power.  There is still a large element of this primitive thinking in current religious practice-fear of punishment, sacrificial behavior to try to gain divine favor, sets of rules which define acceptable behavior, etc.

     9. Ancient Jews felt that their salvation came from belonging to the people of God.  We understand today that each individual's personal relationship with God is what is required.  However, there is still a large tribal component in religious practice-belonging to church, attending worship, observing certain celebrations, accepting the required disciplines. T hese are external and largely man-made rules.  We need to move from fear of punishment to love of God.

     10. Recent revelations about sinful practices in the church and the leadership's attempts to cover up those crimes underlines the fact that the church is often motivated, not by a love for God and his people, but by a desire for power and the need to protect that power.  The church has become so saturated with politics that it tends to forget its basic purpose, to speak in self-forgetful love for God.

     11. The church cannot speak for God when it has quit listening to the voice of God.  It often mistakes its traditional confessions of faith for the authentic will of God.  The choice is between the voice of tradition and the voice of the Holy Spirit.  If we believe that the Holy Spirit dictated the original documents on which the tradition is based, why do we not believe that the Holy Spirit is still fully capable to speaking to us today?

     12. Religion is a metaphor for life lived in a vital connection with God.  All the rituals of religious behavior count for nothing without a heart that yearns for God.  Religion too often leads people to believe that agreement with a creedal statement is all that God requires.  We must move beyond that misconception. Obedience to the Holy Spirit, not to human tradition, is what ultimately pleases God.

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Different Paths: Religious Paradigm / NDE Paradigm... by JDBourdon 

 
 
     What are the primary differences between the Religious Paradigm (set of understandings) of existence and the Near-Death Experience (NDE) Paradigm?

     What follows is a bit of generalization, as people practice religion individually (despite doctrine)... and some philosophical/religious beliefs such as Buddhism don't fall under the criteria below.

     Some folks put religion and spirituality in the same bag, but the NDE Paradigm is radically different. At root is the fact the NDErs beliefs are based on personal experience rather than faith - the beliefs most NDErs hold before their experience are shattered. That's not an anti-religious statement - if mankind's alteration of original teachings were eliminated, the paradigms would be very much the same. (Jesus didn't teach an eye for an eye, etc...)

     That said... these seem to be the primary differences:

     Religious Paradigm: We are apart from God.
     NDE Paradigm: We are a part of god.

     Religious Paradigm: Loyalty/Love/Obedience toward God demanded for salvation.
     NDE Paradigm: Unconditional love always, for everyone. (Love demanded is love debased.)

     Religious Paradigm: sins
     NDE Paradigm: mistakes/misunderstandings from which to learn (opportunities for growth)

     Religious Paradigm: Deeds matter the most; obey the teachings
     NDE Paradigm: Intentions matter the most; come at everything from love

     Religious Paradigm: God judges you for your sins.
     NDE Paradigm: No external judgement; you hold yourself accountable for all thoughts and actions. All your thoughts/actions/motivations of your life are known to all.

     Religious Paradigm: Afterlife: Heaven and Hell
     NDE Paradigm: Afterlife: Vibrations find their own level based on love

     Religious Paradigm: Earthly events may be rewards/punishments for your actions.
     NDE Paradigm: Everything – “good” and “bad” – is an opportunity provided for your growth. It’s all good.
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Heaven & Hell; Man and Myths: a Bible Reassessment... DIALOGUE between Mike King, experiencer (Th.B. (Bachelor of Theology); M.R.Ed. (Masters in Religious Education) and M.A.A.T. (Master of Arts in Applied Theology); and Linda Stewart, experiencer, moderator,  nde@yahoogroups.com
 
MIKE:

     The Christian "truths," articles of faith, doctrines, or dogmas of Christianity are complex and sometimes difficult to understand and assimilate. This includes trying to understand the complexities of heaven and hell, angels and demons.

     Anyone who studies the immense historical and systematic stories of the descent of Christ into hell, his ascension into heaven, angels by the tomb, the exorcism of demons, and calming a stormy sea may wonder if these stories are just another attempt at "mythology" for a god in the making.

LINDA:

     I wonder if this subject is just too fearsome for many to even approach.  I mean, we're talking about the outcome of one's eternal lives for those who take the story literally - and to question it could endanger their 'judgment' day.

     I think if we are ever going to 'demystify' the stories and bring the reality of living a soulful, unconditionally loving life, we have got to get the element of fear of examining out of the way.

MIKE:

     The Bible is rich in myth, stories that are told to convey theological truths.  But would taking these stories literally be the simplest and best way to make the Bible intelligible, acceptable, and logical for modern man?  Should the stories found in scripture be taken at face value and accepted as literal and historical events?

     Wouldn’t it be better if, as some scholars would say, the Bible was purified from all myth and instead be literally paraphrased and interpreted?

     Many scholars believe the answer is simply, no.

     The Bible and its messages, from beginning to end, are rich with mythical and legendary elements, stories and themes that were handed down by oral tradition throughout the centuries.  Eliminating these myths with literal interpretations would force the Bible to be something it was never intended to be.

     What would be left of the Old Testament narratives, the creation of the world and man, for example, or the narratives of the New Testament if they were reduced to only the essential and literal interpretations?

LINDA:

     Do we like to mythologize?  If we look into our own familites, can we recognize when we have selectively and with symbolism, told stories of real events.  A personal example I can think of is about my own grandfather.

     He was an archetypal tall, silent Texan farmer/rancher who was of the earth and goodness personified.  We love telling stories about this man... how, the night before he had to go off to war and grandmother was so upset.

    He said, "Dance with me, Violet" and she said she was too sad.  He said, "If you don't dance with me, I'll dance with this chair," and with that he picked up a chair and started dancing with it.

     He was still dancing when I remember a time when I was about 2 or 3 years old and had to hold my hands straight over my head to join the hands of this 6'6" man who was teaching a little girl an old country dance.

     I loved watching him when he was out on the land working. I saw him once reach down and smell some dirt that he had picked up.  I have described it as an action down as gracefully and sensuously as a ballet dancer.  Myth in the making.

     We love to love and when there is someone in our lives who is truly good, we tell the stories in such a way that we hope to convey the magic of that goodness and love.

     Just imagine the impact Jesus of Nazareth must have had to have influenced so many in such a profound way in such a short life.  We continue telling stories and perpetuating the myths.  I have no problems with myths.  They are a way of story telling that reveals something elemental in the human/soul psyche.  I just don't take them literally - I recognize them as an expression of the human inclination.

MIKE:

     The Bible was written by a people and for a people who thought in mythological terms.  They were a people who were used to hearing and using oral story telling to convey what they perceived to be eternal truths.

     The immense influence of myths on cultures, whether they be of the Far East, India, or those of ancient Greece with epic stories like that of Homer are far reaching.  Even modern stories of a past American President unable to lie about chopping down a cherry tree permeate our culture.

     Theologians, anthropologists, psychologists, and sociologists agree; the power of storytelling helps to establish meaning in a culture.

LINDA:

     In some ways, I think we would be a richer people if we were less literal and more receptive to myth.  I am reminded of Joseph Campbell's works.

MIKE:

     It is obvious that in the Biblical stories of heaven and hell, angels and demons, the writers use vivid narratives.  The use of myths, stories, legends, and symbols in these narratives was absolutely necessary.  How are new experiences of faith to be communicated if not by story telling?

     The narrative of Jesus, for example, being tempted by Satan in the desert is far more comprehensible and easier to remember than any amount of abstract teaching on divine Son-ship and good overcoming evil.

     Whatever one may think of the use of these myths, there can be no doubt about our persistent need to use stories to fortify ideals.  The use of myths, even the simplest of them, are used over and over again.

     The Utopia of the Kingdom of God, for example, even used in a secular form, was attractive up to the time when Marxism was at its peak.  The myths of the Christ child as messiah, isolated and exposed, yet still triumphant over his enemies, inspired people like Francis of Assisi.  These and other myths of different cultures continue to hold the fascination of all people.

     Although the foundations of Christianity uses a variety of myth in describing doctrines, dogmas, and "truth," the Christian message is not a myth in the sense that we use the term today.  We live in a culture that uses mythology to convey truth, but only sparingly.

     The authors of the Bible, however, used them often and without apology.  Though we may recognize these myths, the temptation to literalize them as true historical events must be avoided.  There is no question that in a modern world, presenting the facts and ideas of Christian theology must be done so with myth, stories, saga, legends, images, and symbols.

     These myths, stories, legends, images, and symbols, however, must never be taken literally.  On the other hand these myths, stories, legends, images, and symbols are not to be criticized and categorically dismissed just because of their nature.

LINDA:

     And perhaps one of the reasons people who are religiously inclined cling to the stories so tenaciously is not because they literally believe in the literalness of the stories; but rather, they respond to the abstract nature of the myths themselves, mistaking that recognition of truth within for the written words.

     I know that just this past week, I watched the DVD "Jesus Christ Superstar".  I cried like a baby and yet I have NO, NONE, ZIP, ZILCH interest in seeing Mel Gibson's "Passion of the Christ".

     When I inspected that I realized that I am not the least bit interested in the literally accounting of every rip of flesh, ever drip of blood, every clank of the hammer against the nail and every tear.  

     I am far more interested in what the story of the man who knew he was CHRIST evokes in me.  Music speaks to the same place that responds to myth and I was far more moved than I would have been at literalism.

MIKE:

     The disciplines of theology, psychology, anthropology, and sociology say that human beings have always asked questions in an effort to try and understand themselves, others, and the cosmos they lived in.

     Within these elements of grasping at the unknown, the myths of heaven were born and reborn.  The need to theologically describe the abstract concepts of an invisible world into everyday language was and is the driving motivation in defining heaven and hell, angels and demons.

     Heaven cannot be fully described, but the human concept of what heaven must be like can be.  Although there are as many different interpretations describing heaven as there are authors there is a common thread that runs through them.

     Heaven is where God resides and is not dull.  It is an endless dynamic joy, and it is where the "real you" will reside and be fully realized by reaching its fullest potential.  It is reality at its fullest.

     By contrast, the human myth of hell is the complete opposite of heaven.  It is indeed the complete contradiction of what heaven is like.  Instead of God residing there, Satan is exiled and imprisoned there.  Instead of endless dynamic joy, it is full of endless suffering and pain. A lthough the "real you" may reside there, your real potential will never be reached.  It is the complete absence of reality.

     The stories of the spirit world, the angels in heaven and the demons in hell, are also an attempt for humankind to understand themselves, others, and the cosmos.  Why are we here?  What is our purpose?  Why do good and bad things happen to people? Why are there natural disasters?  If God has created the cosmos why is it that innocent people seem to suffer as a result of its destructive powers?  How do miracles happen?

     The myths created to try and explain why these events take place are the reason the "truths" of the Christian faith were formulated and in doing so the use of myth, stories, symbols, images, and legends were used lavishly and without apology.

LINDA:

     Far from being demeaning by calling these people unsophisticated, I believe they were far more in touch with the essence of the story than many practicing religionists today.  That said, I think it is important to recognize the nature of myth and symbolism and bring them into our current day thought both consciously, deliberately and then with abandon.

     An odd combination of the rational and the mystical. After all, we have both facilities - there is a reason for them.

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abandoning concepts of " god"... by Bill Skiles, experiencer,  from his book-in-progress, "The Mystical Experience"

     When I was child of 6 or 7 years old, my mother sent me to vacation bible school at one of the local churches in town. On one of the days that I was there, I remember asking the man in charge a very important question. At least it was to me. I asked him where is God, what is God? That man pointed up to a picture on the wall of Jesus and said, "That is God" and he seemed somewhat irritated at my question.

     Well, after that he dismissed us to go out and play. After all the other children and the man had gone out to play, I stayed behind where no one was looking. And there I was all 3 foot tall of me. For minutes I stared up at that picture. I stared and stared looking intently to see if I could see God. At last I heard a voice inside say to me very clearly, "That’s not God, that’s a man."

     So started my search to find out what God is.

     Abandoning our concepts of God, that which we have been told and that which we have learned intellectually, or through theology or some religious training or even ideas we have gathered through reading spiritual books or going to spiritual classes is imperative.  Why?  Because a concept about God is not God.  A concept of God won’t heal.  A concept of God won’t bring grace or enlightenment.  A concept of God has no power.

     If I was to say to you that to me God is a Presence, Omnipresence.  What does that mean?  What does Jesus mean when he speaks of a Father within?  What does Buddha mean by the term the Godhead?  If we are honest about it, we really don’t know.  Each of these folks have had an experience of God that translated Itself to them in a way that they could know beyond words and thoughts.

     To be content with what we have learned from a textbook, even a spiritual textbook, or what we have been taught from our pastor, preacher, minister or spiritual teacher is to be leaning upon a mental concept and all mental concepts will fail.

     There comes a time in everyone’s experience when we begin to see that a concept about God is not God.  And we have been praying to these concepts.  We have been praying to a non-existent god made in our image and likeness.  No wonder so many of our prayers have gone unanswered for so many years.

     It takes courage to go beyond all that, it takes daring.  We have to be willing to lay aside every concept we have ever had in order to launch out into the Infinite.  But "To know God aright is Life Eternal" which makes it worth the effort.  And to have an actual experience of God is something that will change us forever.

     Be willing to drop all concepts of God.  Be willing to admit, "Father, I really don’t know you. But I want to know you, to have an experience of You."

     Don’t be afraid for a season to put aside all books, even this one.  To come to God, empty handed, with a clean slate and then let God reveal God to you.  Go within, become still and be receptive to God’s wisdom instead of man’s thoughts.  Refuse to borrow from anyone’s thoughts about God.  This is the Way.

     When it happened to me it was disconcerting for a time.  There was the feeling, "They have taken my Lord away."  But it really wasn’t a Lord at all, only dozens of borrowed worn out, powerless concepts.  I had to go within and sit and sit and sometimes I felt nothing.  I would go about my business and then return at night or the next day to meditate again.

     Eventually something began to stir within me.  There was a quickening.  The Spirit of God Itself began to make Itself known to me as an experience.  But this God experience, this Mystical Experience was alive and had power to heal and no man could take it from me.  Neither was there any need to prove it to anyone.  There was a natural tendency to keep it secret and sacred so that it could grow rather than have discussions about it.

     Once we have had this experience, it will come again, and again until we have our own understanding or knowing of what God is.  And it will lead us to the right scripture or the right book which will corroborate our experience.

     How will we know it is a real experience?  By the most practical test of all: does it work?  What are the results?

     You see we reach the place where every meditation has to be an experience of God, because we know that no knowledge of God will heal or bless or be a benediction and yet after we have the actual visit of God or Spirit or Christ or Spiritual Realty come upon us, we will see an Invisible Presence that really does go before us to prepare a place for us. 

     Sometimes it can appear as just the right parking space at just the right time.  It can appear as the right book, the right class, the right opportunity, usually one we never thought of ourselves.

     Then we will be done with concepts, many of which we may have carried for many years.  Like old friends, we let them go.  They may even have sustained us for a time while we were moving towards the experience, but go they must no matter how dear they seem if we are ever going to have a mystical experience.

     It isn’t the explanation of the experience, it is this experience of God that heals.  We will learn eventually that all we need do is rest in the Silence until we feel a movement within that signals to us that we have had a spiritual experience.  Sometimes these experiences will be profound, sometimes just a quick shift within, however, we must abandon all concepts of God in order for the experience to come to us.

     But let us not stop with the concept of God. Let us go the full route and abandon our other concepts as well; our concepts of good and evil, our concepts of woman and man, our concepts of health and wealth and lack and limitation.  Let us abandon our concepts of this world and the spiritual kingdom.  Let us go to God Itself and let God reveal the truth behind all of these concepts.

     We can even ask what does Christ mean, what does Spirit mean?  We can go within and ask for light on any topic for which we formally had a concept; Grace, Truth, Peace, Light, Abundance, Life, anything we want.

     This is the way this book came into being.  I went within, I asked for clarification on these topics, I became quiet and I listened.  "Speak Lord, thy servant heareth."  Then as these truths poured out, I simply wrote them down or dictated what I heard.

     When I was a teenager I knew a man that was very spiritual in nature. He was loving and a good teacher of spiritual principles.  I admired him and wanted what he had so I emulated him and even quoted him at times.

     Well, life would not let me stand still and as I continued to walk the day came when I had to begin to do what we are talking about here and throw out these concepts.

     I can even remember thinking to myself one night that I really wasn’t sure about a particular topic because all I had was this man’s understanding and I had never had the courage to get my own.  That was quite an experience to realize I didn’t know what I thought I knew.

     Shortly thereafter I did let go of some of these concepts and had a very powerful spiritual experience.  So I went to this man and I said to him, "In the past I have been afraid to speak in front of you to a crowded room, but now I am no longer afraid to say what I feel, because I know what I have experienced is real."

     He told me that he loved me and that I should walk my own path and then he asked me to give a talk with him the following week, which I did.

     So you see, all of us in our own way and in our own time must come to where we are ready to abandon concepts. Then we may have the experience.

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god is... by PMH Atwater, experiencer/researcher/author,
http://www.cinemind.com/atwater
      
     God is.  

     God is the one presence, the one power, the one force and source of all. There are no competitors to God, no reality existent outside of God. God is omnipotent (all powerful), omniscient (all knowing), and omnipresent (present everywhere). There is no place where God is not, simply because nothing exists without God.

     God is neither a man nor a woman nor a thing.

     God is no one's father or mother or benefactor. These terms are used only to help us understand relationships - ours to God - not to establish a more human type of parentage. We use such terms as a matter of convenience or because it is comforting to do so. We call ourselves children of God because we do not know what else to call ourselves, and it seems as good a term as any to use.

     We are made in the image of God, not in the sense of physical appearance, but with respect to the power of our souls and the potential of our minds. God is the Creator; we are co-creators. It would be more appropriate and more in line with Truth, if we called ourselves extensions of God or, perhaps, thoughts in the Mind of God. It would even be appropriate to use another name for God, like The Force, The One, The All, The Is-ness, The One Mind, The Source, or whatever conveys that sense of deity that is without limitation or boundary, beyond what can be comprehended.

     While God is more than any name, protocol, hierarchy, concept, or grandiosity could describe or define; God truly is as near as our next breath - as close as our next thought. We are part of God and existent with God. A belief in separation, that we could possibly exist and have our being apart from God, is the only real sin. This belief is of our own making. God has not decreed separation; this we did ourselves by our own perception that somehow, some way, we could transcend That Which Cannot Be Transcended.

     God is not dependent on our belief, for our belief or disbelief in God does not affect God - only us.

     God is not a member of any church or religion. It is the churches and the religions that are members within the vastness and the glory that is God. There is no one religion just as there is no "chosen" people or person, nor any single way of regarding what cannot be fully comprehended.

     We are all "sons" of God in the sense that we are all souls of God's creation, without gender, without form, without nationality, complete and whole and perfect as we explore the never-endingness of God's wonderment. A spark from the essence of All God Is resides in each and every one of us has an unbreakable connection, that thread or cord that ensures we remain a part of That Which We Could Never Leave.

     The splendorous joy of recognizing and acknowledging our special-ness, our greatness, as creations of God and as co-creators with God, is akin to being engulfed by overwhelming floodtides of God's Glorious Love.

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